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View Full Version : Cheap programmers for RoboShop @ Ri ...



vikas
09-01-2009, 06:35 PM
Im also planning to sell programmers on the site -

They will be USB programmers ...

So what do you think is better b/w the two

AVR-Doper ( Robokits sells for 700 ... too expensive)
USBAsp ( Avinash G sells for about Rs 350 )

so b/w the two which one do you like more and why ?

Also what about Pic any recommendations for a programmer that i should build to sell .

And same for x51 , though AVR-Doper/USBASP I think can handle 89SXX Series ( Note tested ) .

Should Zif sockets be provided ? They add to cost or IS connectors are enough.

pkshima
09-01-2009, 07:11 PM
In the case of programmers, the only thing probably anyone needs is the PCB and perhaps the pre-programmed chip in it.

On the PIC side, Junebug is an excellent programmer + development board.
So would be SO NICE to be able to buy a Junebug PCB alone in India. Though you might want to check with that guy (Bill of www.blueroomelectronics.com).

But probably any PIC Kit 2 or PICKit 3 clone would do.

P.S : I already have programmers so dont take my words as those of a perspective customer :-)

wizardjack
09-02-2009, 12:05 AM
i would suggest combine both PICKIT2 clone and USBasp into one.
Target ie. AVR/PIC should be selectable using a jumper.

All you need is a pic18f2550. It is pretty cheap if sourced directly from microchip but am not sure about your targeted price range.

Circuit for pickit2 is available online in itz user-guide and software is open-sourced too (not sure about the latest version though).
As for the USBasp if interested i can help you with porting the code to pic.
Infact i already have some portions of USBasp working pic18f4455 (cousin of 18f2550).

cheers !!!

debu
09-02-2009, 08:06 AM
@wizardjack: I've been trying to make a universal programmer for a long time (using a 4550), pretty much the same as you :).

Problem with what you said is that; PICkit2 is not open source, infact I have not seen anything but HEX files for it anywhere. There is the PIC-Brenner (clickie) (http://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/projekte/brenner8/index.htm) which is open source, but it is full of bugs, and the driver doesn't work with vista. So, I'm making my own based on Microchip's Programming Protocol. The silver lining is, that all microchip parts use the same protocol (but at different voltages) so, potentially if I can get one to work, then I should be able to get them all to work (PIC24s, 33s etc.).

Regards,

Debu :)

MohitM
09-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Problem with what you said is that; PICkit2 is not open source, infact I have not seen anything but HEX files for it anywhere.
You probably haven't looked at the right place then. :)

PICkit 2 page at Microchip website:
http://tinyurl.com/aul7t

And this leads to:
http://tinyurl.com/2yadg9

wizardjack
09-02-2009, 10:19 AM
Thankx mohit.

@debu:
Microchip hasn't released the latest firmware version sources. Maybe thatz because they want to avoid the direct competition with folks making cheap clones.
Anyway my line of thinking was that if you replicate the pickit2 circuit diagram (there are some not so easily available components) then all you need to do is follow these steps :
1. Burn the latest pickit2 hex on it.
2. Burn the USBasp code into the free space.
3.. Use a way to branch from bootloader into USBasp or PICKIT2 code usng a jumper.
For branching you can try something that PIC Tiny bootloader does ie. overwrite the 1st instruction to jump to your location and then jump back to RESET vector + 0x04 (for the inital jump) to join the main code flow.

All this is possible with some hex file trickery using existing PICKIT2.

debu
09-02-2009, 11:00 AM
@mohit: Thanks. Surprisingly, it was on the Microchip forums that I was told that the PICkit source is not open. Funny isn't it.

@wizardjack: I agree, alternatively one could use sections of the pic kit code and generate entirely fresh code which includes the USBasp programming instructions.

Regards,

Debu :)

wizardjack
09-02-2009, 11:09 AM
@debu :
you may be right in the sense that released source code is not open-source per se but may be free to be used only for Microchip products.

vikas
09-02-2009, 12:01 PM
But didnt USB ASP run on AVR and PIC run on Pic ?

asimov_18 has directed me to a 89sXX / AVR programmer which he has changed from USB ASP so i just need to add pic to it and it almost handles all three ;) .

pkshima
09-02-2009, 12:22 PM
Nice to hear ideas about new and universal programmers that too in India.

Still, if the goal of roboshop is proliferation, I hope it doesn't wait till these programmers finalize. Better to start delivering what exists in the world already but not easily available in India.

MohitM
09-02-2009, 12:29 PM
@debu :
you may be right in the sense that released source code is not open-source per se but may be free to be used only for Microchip products.
This is an example of a geek's sense of humour... A Microchip programmer has to be used with a Microchip product, of course! :lol:

MohitM
09-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Microchip hasn't released the latest firmware version sources. Maybe thatz because they want to avoid the direct competition with folks making cheap clones.
Microchip has absolutely no problem in third-parties selling their low cost programming hardware copied from their site. They are in the business of selling ICs, that is where the money comes in from. The thought is that as long the development tools are free or low cost, this will attract users into using their microcontrollers. In fact, I think they lose money on their development tools - these are good, the support is great, the pricing is very reasonable. PICkit 2 is just $35 while PICkit 2 clones sell for more.

vikas
09-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Also do you guys think that a ZIF socket is required ? ZIF just incresese costs :) .

As most of the IC's being targeted has ICSP interface .

kp_chd
09-02-2009, 04:34 PM
I don't think we need a ZIF

I have the USB AVR prog from robokits and never felt the need for a ZIF

asimov_18
09-02-2009, 08:39 PM
ZIF socket cost Rs 50 here in Mumbai per piece . If you want I will be in Delhi next month I can get them in bulk and I guess we will get good discount. any ways you can offer the programmer without the ZIF as well

or there could be an additional plugable board with the ZIF sockect and those who wish to have a ZIF socket could buy that extension board.


Asimov

vikas
09-02-2009, 08:43 PM
I think ill skip the ZIF socket .

If i plan to make it at Rs 200 ZIP dose not allow it :).

electronica
09-04-2009, 08:00 PM
One thing I don understand:

How do we connect the programmer with the chip ?
For portability?

ice
09-05-2009, 12:49 AM
Vikas,

Am back after a long time.
Won't ICSP be better?

vikas
09-05-2009, 01:35 AM
Great to have you back ICE , We had a great time when we started all this ...

You me and Rao ...

Anyhow the programmers will be ICSP :) . No high voltage stuff ;) .

d_gal_in_black
11-07-2011, 04:15 PM
Hi,

Check out the latest fusion from eNTesla. An AVR Programmer which also doubles as a USB- Serial Converter.

http://bit.ly/avr_prog

Ulhas
11-13-2011, 07:54 PM
Other than 2 you mentioned , check out "Open Programmer v0.7.x" An open source USB programmer for PIC micros, I2C-SPI-MicroWire EEPROMs, some ATMEL micros, generic I2C/SPI devices and (soon) other devices from "http://openprog.altervista.org/OP_eng.html" which has huge chip support also we had a discussion with the designer of the same, he told that if required he will add asupport to 89Sxx series also if work is shared partially

Quick facts :-
Completely free and Open Source (including firmware)
Programs PIC10-12-16-18-24, dsPIC30-33, EEPROMs type 24xxxx (I2C), 25xxx (SPI), 93xx6 (MicroWire), some ATMEL micros, communicates with generic I2C & SPI devices (see supported devices)
Can work as ICD debugger
USB 2.0 Full Speed interface, HID class (same as keyboards, mice, etc.)
Self powered
Doesn't need drivers
Built from easy to find components
Hardware generated timings for maximum speed and reliability (writes a 18F2550 in 15s, 8s under Linux)
Doesn't saturate your CPU and doesn't suffer when other programs are running
Open source control programs for Linux and Windows

hotshot05
12-03-2011, 05:44 PM
@ulhas Have you tried building that Open Programmer???
Seems to be a great project