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rao
03-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Hi

Lately, wondering, do we really require the 10 pin ISP connectors on programmers?

How many people really use them?

We are developing a dirt cheap programmer and were wondering if we can take off this part to save further costs.

Give us your views.

Rao

vikas
03-05-2010, 03:08 PM
I think its not required , as most people in India are DIY and use a simple male headers to connect programmer to their board.

Or maybe we can have something like - http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/ , just cables coming out ... cuts cost.

But i think that cheap 6 pin connector should also suffice. Saves me 20 bucks :) .

Nivedita
03-05-2010, 03:16 PM
Assuming you are working on AVR!! here is my input:

I have used and insisted our customers to use 6 pin header as its simple for connection. See any of our board, all have 6 pin connectors in sequence of Vcc, GNd, MOSi, MISO, SCK, RST.

The cost of 5x2 male conenctor + 10 pin flat cable and the cost of 6 pin male header & the 6 pin female to female cable goes almost same.

The 6 pin connector is simple to use & design.

The 10 pin connectors has advantage of "stable" and "long life" cable as compared with 6 pin.

Still personally I prefer 6 pin over 10 pin. As it saves the PCB space.

@vikas: soldering the cable to PCB is not simple and its time consuming too.

pkshima
03-05-2010, 03:43 PM
Those connectors seem to be the most sturdy ones and still compact.
The same applies to the FRC cable that goes with it.

But then again it depends on what you are comparing it against.
What is the alternate you have in mind ?

vikas
03-05-2010, 05:26 PM
I have yet not broken my 6 pin connector of my college time programmer i built ( 6 years now ) . But I found that FRC cable header which i had for another programmer , broke easily when i was trying to remove it.

We can always provide the 6 pin to 3x2 or 5x2 converter cable , and itll be much cheaper.

So for now i think 6 pin connector will be better deal.

rao
03-05-2010, 08:21 PM
Exactly, a 6 pin connector is the more cost effective and logical choice for me too.

Rao

akshay66
03-05-2010, 09:22 PM
Same Here 6 pin.

pkshima
03-05-2010, 11:51 PM
can you point us to a picture of the 6 pin connector you are talking about ...

vikas
03-06-2010, 04:04 AM
Here is the 6 pin connector

http://robokits.co.in/shop/bmz_cache/2/2fb791c893fa6d4782987220cf9e3814.image.600x450.jpg

docel
03-06-2010, 05:43 AM
The 6pin Relimate connectors are pretty good.
But you may have some intermittent connection problems after extensive usage ( connect - disconnect cycles) as the female header pins expand. This happens due to the violent shake-bend-yank method employed by impatient users.

The cure for this socket-fatigue will be to remove or cut off the lock flap in the female.
Now, its upto the USER to ensure correct polarity...... :p

pkshima
03-06-2010, 12:05 PM
Thanks for the link vikas.
Well if going the 6 pin connector route, I am assuming there be connectors on both ends.
i.,e neither the programmer will have wires soldered directly or the target end having loose wires.

Now, I havent seen ready made cables with connectors on both ends. If you intend to make them yourselves, I guess the cost benefit will be lost ?

akshay66
03-06-2010, 12:23 PM
No ready made connector on both sides are available in market. Making own connectors is cheap if you buy material for 500 connectors.

rao
03-06-2010, 12:38 PM
LOL akshay, did you read the poll question before voting?

@pkshima, the cost still comes out to be lesser, we have already calculated.

Rao

akshay66
03-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Yes, Why ??

pkshima
03-06-2010, 09:23 PM
@akshay, I guess Rao & Vikas will easily and quickly sell over 500 units so numbers wont be a problem here.

By cost, I meant not money but the headache of crimping those pins. Somehow even with a 750 Rs crimping tool, I find it very cumbersome.
If its still cheaper for them, I guess they have a better technique of making it or they might be offloading it to some small shop.

MohitM
03-08-2010, 11:25 PM
I can't quite follow this thread... What is it about? Is it the technical/quality aspect or the cost aspect that you guys are worried about?

Anyway, we regularly use them in our products as connectors between PCB to LCD & PCB to keypad and they are pretty sturdy.

And they are pretty cheap. We buy from Chhabra Electronics, LRM (and I don't have his numbers with me). Last time, IIRC, he quoted Rs. 0.9 per pin/wire for one end male+female connectors and Rs. 1.35 per pin/wire for both ends have male+female connectors. Wire length was 9". For a 6-wire connector with connectors on both ends: Rs. 1.35*6 = Rs. 8.10. I don't know about you guys, but this price suits us great. The wires and connectors are good quality, and I have absolutely no issues against them. They'll custom-build for you also, at no extra price.

MohitM
03-08-2010, 11:47 PM
No ready made connector on both sides are available in market.
Actually, they are. We've bought them across the counter. It seems the 6-pins are usually stocked in quantities. I think they are used in PCB to LCD connections a lot - weighing scales, PCO machines etc.

akshay66
03-09-2010, 10:05 AM
Agree with Mohit,

making connectors is easy,cheap & they are sturdy too.

@PKshima: You don't actually need a crimping tool.I use my nose pliers.

MohitM
03-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Agree with Mohit,
making connectors is easy,cheap & they are sturdy too.
I never suggested making these connectors! Whatever the quantities, you should buy them.

akshay66
03-09-2010, 10:21 AM
Ok but still find making connectors better.

I rarely buy ready mate relimate connectors.There are several advantages of making connectors like:

cheap.
You can choose the length of wire.
With 8 pins in hand you can make four 2pin connectors or two 3pins & one 2pin connector so i mean you can make them up to your requirement.

pkshima
03-09-2010, 11:59 AM
@akshay : yes sure there are benefits of making them yourself. But are you sure thats the case even with 500+ units ?

akshay66
03-09-2010, 12:29 PM
No, By 500+ i meant that if you buy 500+ you'll get them at really really cheap price. Obviously making 500 connectors is a tough job.

vikas
03-12-2010, 01:18 PM
I had an idea , what if we skip the cable and just give bent connectors :) ?

http://www.machinescience.org/store/image.php?type=P&id=57

So there will be 6 bent connectors, and programmer can be simply plugged into the dev board. If someone has male headers on his board he can simply splice together two female headers and he is done.

pkshima
03-12-2010, 01:28 PM
well :)
depends if the target board has enough room around the programming port.
But then I guess the user always has the option to remove whatever connector you provide and solder in wires directly on this side and have whatever connector he wants on the other end.

BTW, is it possible to have PCB footprint for both 6pin as well as the 10 pin connectors ?

pratheek
03-15-2010, 08:41 AM
Just a thought here - those cheap header pins get oxidized after a few months, rendering the connector useless.
If you are using header pins, make sure they are coated with an anti-oxidizing material.

godslayer
03-17-2010, 06:42 PM
considering what pretheek said,... you might get those anodized right angled headers for cheap. its like >5 rs something for 30 connectors...

akshay66
03-17-2010, 09:21 PM
Don't know about oxidized or unoxidized but i get 40 pin male right angle for Rs 8/- & if i buy 20 pcs he gives me for 140 or 145.

pkshima
03-17-2010, 11:39 PM
hey akshay which shop is it ? 830 ?

godslayer
03-18-2010, 02:12 AM
well.. its not oxidized its anodized.. there is huge difference between the two..

rao
03-18-2010, 02:22 PM
Lets not put all topics on one single thread, please make a new thread for this issue.

tpsbpl
05-04-2015, 09:40 PM
Yes its needed for standards

helix
06-13-2016, 09:18 PM
Thanks for this post, it helped me a lot! :cool: