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  1. #1

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    Yogi, always think of TIME vs MONEY.

    If time is important to you, buy good tools and if you have TIME but not MONEY then continue your experiments.

    I suggest, in initial phase begineer should concentrate on the programming and coding work, later one can experiment with making a programmer etc.

    Any expert's comments on this 8O ?
    8051, AVR, PIC Development Boards & Programmers and much more starts from Rs. 10 onwards @ www.deccanrobots.com

  2. #2

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    I agree with u Nivedita

    But if you are a serious guy in doing things yourself and gain more knowledge then it is better to develop your own and I am interested in supporting them. If you just want to complete a final year project with less effort, then u buy one(even the project itself). First of all, almost all the circuits and ideas you are going to develop are available on internet(most of the microcontroller related), it is upto you how you want to develop (copy+paste or modify yourself to make a cheaper one) it. Wiring a circuit or coding a program is not a big task ( rather it is a normal high school student job if you take case of micrcontroller), when coming to understanding practical problems then only you will gain the actual knowledge.


    I suggest, in initial phase begineer should concentrate on the programming and coding work, later one can experiment with making a programmer etc.
    That is not the programmer made by me, it is a standard BSD programmer. I have got some problem with it, so I put all the troubleshooting tips, which i faced in the link . If he cannot solve problem occuring with this simple programmer then how will he go for higher circuits.


    Nowadays you buy one kit with everything assembled, just reconnect some wires you can study microcontroller in a day itself, but it won't add much to your knowledge. I prefer beginner should start from scratch with good practical knowledge, so I put all my experiences in my book and provided for free so that others should not get stuck with problem which I faced.Moreover, electronic circuit builder should require some patience. If you have money then buy some expensive kit and assemble it, download some program into it(most of them provided by vendor itself) and study it.

    In a student life you have enough time. Most of the engineering student won't utilize 10% of their 4year study time effectively(including me). So if you are a dedicated learner as a student, then have ample time for experiments.


    Bibin John
    www.bibinjohn.tk

  3. #3

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    Well said.

    I have seen final year students NOT atall ready to experiment. They require spoon feeding and readymade stuf. Same time there are few good students whom I know, but more percentage is of lazy and focusless students.
    8051, AVR, PIC Development Boards & Programmers and much more starts from Rs. 10 onwards @ www.deccanrobots.com

  4. #4

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    I have seen final year students NOT atall ready to experiment. They require spoon feeding and readymade stuf. Same time there are few good students whom I know, but more percentage is of lazy and focusless students.
    Ya this is a fact everywhere including premier institutes like REC(don't know about IIT's where paper matters more than projects). In India everybody likes copy+paste,even with teachers also. If I take my college (NIT Allahabad), they will give only the project which had done by your seniors as your final year project. Only few of the guys who had done something practical before final year dare to change the project.


    Bibin John
    www.bibinjohn.tk

  5. #5

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    I do not fully agree with you yogi that person should build a circuit from scratch. Robot building or make a college/final yr. project is not just about building circuit. Circuit building is just one part which i think is not so significant. Rather than circuit building person should utilize his energy time and money in designing the system then using the right components/parts/kits/boards/sensors and then writing good and efficient code for that.

    Just look at abroad.
    Singapore - Micromouse is common among the school children.
    Japan - There is special category in Roboone for school students. Also there is a category in which parents also participate along with kids.
    USA - FIRST, worlds one of the biggest and most popular robotics competition among students start in 1992 with 24-28 teams and in 2006 more than 8000 teams participated from all over the world.

    There focus is not only on building circuit or soldering or debugging the circuit. Students have access to good quality hardware/development boards/sensors so they focus on designing the system and coding.

  6. #6

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    hi
    i my opinion it depends on the expertise u have... basically if u are new to both programming and hardware or if u r new to hardware it is wise for one to get a decent board from one of the manufacturers and have a go in it... otherwise most of the time one would get frustrated from the lack of any progress and hinder your interset
    so the best thing if u r very new buy a programmer as a minimum and start working with it

  7. #7

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    There focus is not only on building circuit or soldering or debugging the circuit. Students have access to good quality hardware/development boards/sensors so they focus on designing the system and coding.
    I am enjoying this discussion.

    I have simple example, to which everyone will agree. Parents wont mind paying Rs. 3000 to Rs. 6000 for a good cell phone for their "to-be" engineer kid, or Rs. 25000 to buy a PC. But Indian mind is not yet open to spend Rs. 4000 for a good development tool for microcontroller or to spend Rs. 450 for a good book. I have seen students buying second hand books and brand new cell phone with camera. Here our students are more obsessed for the LOOKS of westerns. They overlook the attitude and efforts western or Japanies student take to reach to the goal.

    I appeal here to all members to list me 100 students who have purchased development Boards for microcontrollers. put your board details too.

    I know count will not exceed 25.
    8051, AVR, PIC Development Boards & Programmers and much more starts from Rs. 10 onwards @ www.deccanrobots.com

  8. #8
    Super Moderator T-1000 docel's Avatar
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    It is the ready -made stuff that has made the students"dependent " on the numerous Institutes with Ready Kits for everything.
    Students are being sold Ready Projects downloaded from the Net, with Project reports. The readymade market is hand in glove with the College staff/ Guides, who are peddeling these Institute wares. Imagine, a Remote controlled car Via Mobilephone being "hired" out to 85 students! 8O

    Learning Programming is NOT Robotics but just a part of it. People are using a Microcontroller for stupid reasons like 2 sensors and 4 outputs driving a L293D. They also strive through the programming etc., with the hundreds of ready programmers ( whats in an ISP Programmer, anyway???) available in the country.

    Talking of The US etc.,: most of them start with readymade kits or old projects by seniors. But the guys who are winning are those who have overall expertise in "everythiing". These are not ReadyMade solutions ., but self-made robots, with a complete understanding of the basics, components and circuit elements. A micromouse that does the Maze in 6secs costs thousands of dollars and generates many Patents. They are also sponsored wholly by the industry, who make the Mouse a testing platform for their research processes.

    When someone puts 3 components together and gets them working by himself, he has gained a lot of aptitude.

    There is nothing new to design. Everything is done by the Component manufacturers and their Application Notes specify all the parameters needed for things to work. The problem is in assembling those component s in the relevant manner and to get them working. This has any number of variables which must be tackled by the builder for success. And this is where people fail miserably most of the time. So what if the Code was perfect???

    It is sad to see students jumping to Micros, Programming and ReadyMade Programmers to make a Simple Line follower. -and then fall off in the assembly and construction of the Hardware and Mechanics due to lack of basic electronic skills !!! They would do better to try a simple Robot and then migrate to Microcontrollers, if necessary!!

    It is NOT necessary to have a Micro for everything.
    But , it is NECESSARY to have the basic skills in Electronics.
    docel
    ^Anything is possible..
    after YOU prove it!!

    http://bangalorerobotics.tripod.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Cyborg
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    Default ok

    ..... and now i think we should conclude something and stop end this post here only, it is better to help someone who is here for help, but if you want to have a normal chat , then you must use yahoo messanger.

    Let me also waste my time by giving mine own example -

    Before 4 years i was interested in Robotic car which can go forword and backword,turn right and left. as a mechanical engineer and electronics hobbiest i know how to do it but to make this very effective i had a talk with many of my final year Electronic friends.


    And you will surprise after hearing what they suggested to me

    - 98 % of them suggested to go for microprocessor kit which they are using for experiment ( i don't know why they did not suggested Micro controller)

    - And remaining 2% suggested to try on net it is readily and easily available on net

    WHAT THIS CONCLUDES

    1. To move a mass of .2 KG i have to use that big microprocessor kit which may weight around .5 or more KGs. Most of electronics engineers don't know how to build kit from spares. This means 50-70% of my motor is wasted in carring the uP kit!!!!!!!!!

    2. They told me to go internet to have a ready code. This is very worst thing . Never ever try to copy something directly because

    If we hear, we forget; if we see, we remember; if we do, we understand.

    so it is always recommended to start your project from spares only.

    3. Ok kit is suitable for Professionals only not for students

    hope this will clear and end this post here only but if you have something to conclude please add. Never missuse forum and your valuable time it costs.

    regards

    ulhas

  10. #10

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    well robotics as we know is a multidisciplinary field.for all roboteers its good to have a basic knowledge of electronics, mech and comp science so that they get a good overview of what not and what can be done by the union of all these fields. but if you see higher end robotics, the person involved with the coding part need not know the details of the hardware.
    so for say a comp science student it is not completely necessary to build a circuit then try his hands at robotics.
    coming to students in the electronics field ...they should be able to design build their own circuits practically. now when do students start off with their robotics career/ doing practical projects.
    some early birds start off with their 1st year some 2nd...and obviously there are the late risers who start off in their later years.
    and yes the later do find it difficult to implement ckts. and many as a result give up
    if u r new to hardware it is wise for one to get a decent board from one of the manufacturers and have a go in it... otherwise most of the time one would get frustrated from the lack of any progress and hinder your interset
    so a slow steady progress on coding and gradually moving on to building hardware is a good option too...

    and according to me an engineers motive is to make life simpler... so i dont think using readymade boards is a bad idea...

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