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Thread: Cost reduction through SMT ?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by docel
    Nice offer, Mohit, so good of you!! But Vikas is looking at solid bulk
    Alright then, how many units are you guys looking at then? I remember him mentioning '100' PCBs in some post. I could get these many done too, but in lots of say, about 25. Again it depends on how easy or complex the PCB is.
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  2. #12
    Administrator T-1000 vikas's Avatar
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    Im trying to introduce affordable robotics in india. ARP is the short form , The quantities for a start is about 100 later on might increase.

    I will keep you guys updated, and if i need any help ill let u know.
    Vikas Patial

  3. #13
    Senior Member T-1000 debu's Avatar
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    As far as the question of cost reduction by using SMT is concerned, there is no doubt that SMD components are cheaper, the bords are smaller hence cheaper again. Availability; there is no SMD component which is not available, especially if the quantity is a 100 pieces! Personally I use avnet, who is always more then willing to give as much as 100 units, and avnet costs much less then the local market (lajpat rai market in Delhi), and they can arrange for any part from any manufacturer. Now soldering; I have four technicians working for me (currently), and neither of them had any experience soldering SMD before they started. I don't have and can't afford a fancy pick and place unit, all my clients boards are soldered by hand. My staff is able to solder a PQ208 package (208 pins) FPGAs on boards by hand, and these boards get CE and ISI marks. As far as time is concerned; the time per pin for through hole is more then the time per pin for SMD pins while soldering.

    As for the argument that SMT is not for hobbyists and students, I recommend that one looks at sparkfun (clickie). You will find a very vast majority of their boards, from the simplest kits to the advanced boards using SMD components.

    Having said all that, I understand that changing from through hole to SMT requires a minimum level of confidence in ones abilities (board design, soldering, EMC/ESD compliance etc.), as far as the manufacturer of the product is concerned. More importantly to migrate from through hole to SMD, one needs an open mind to accept the change.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Debu

  4. #14
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    Nothing to say more ...

    Debu Said it all again !

    Having said all that, I understand that changing from through hole to SMT requires a minimum level of confidence in ones abilities (board design, soldering, EMC/ESD compliance etc.), as far as the manufacturer of the product is concerned. More importantly to migrate from through hole to SMD, one needs an open mind to accept the change.
    EXACTLY !!!
    Avinash Gupta
    ************
    www.eXtremeElectronics.co.in

  5. #15
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    Its probably a moot discussion...

    bords are smaller hence cheaper again
    Boards designed for SMT are not necessarily cheaper. Because more often than not you need a multi-layer board because routing so many tracks in one/two layers is kinda difficult. Besides because of noise and EMI considerations you usually have the outer planes for ground and power and use the inner layer for signal routes.

    there is no SMD component which is not available, especially if the quantity is a 100 pieces!
    That is true. If it exists, it sure must be available somewhere in the world! But can you really make such blankets statements for all electronic parts, and for all regions? Sure I can order 50 pieces of some MOSFET driver from RS, Farnell or whoever, but is it so convenient for me to have a source for almost all my other components and a different source for that one single part?

    avnet costs much less then the local market (lajpat rai market in Delhi), and they can arrange for any part from any manufacturer.
    Again another blanket statement. I'm interested in how can you be so sure for all parts from all manufacturers. And they may take some time to get this done. And how many users of ARP have easy access to Avnet or Arrow or Future?

    Now soldering; I have four technicians working for me (currently), and neither of them had any experience soldering SMD before they started. ... My staff is able to solder a PQ208 package (208 pins) FPGAs on boards by hand, and these boards get CE and ISI marks. As far as time is concerned; the time per pin for through hole is more then the time per pin for SMD pins while soldering.
    I never said its not doable. But its simply not convenient if you have more than a few boards and more than a few components and less than four technicians.

    As for the argument that SMT is not for hobbyists and students, I recommend that one looks at sparkfun (clickie). You will find a very vast majority of their boards, from the simplest kits to the advanced boards using SMD components.
    But there are so many other hobbyists sites that do use DIP. See I never wrote that SMT is not for hobbyists. Its just inconvenient... And I wrote that availability of SMDs in towns and cities across India is an issue.


    Having said all that, I understand that changing from through hole to SMT requires a minimum level of confidence in ones abilities (board design, soldering, EMC/ESD compliance etc.),
    And some good skills and practice.

    More importantly to migrate from through hole to SMD, one needs an open mind to accept the change.
    Amen! But also production and manufacturing viability.

    To set things straight, I have boards that use a mix of SMD and through hole. All bypass caps are SM, and so is the 64-pin PIC. Since that particular design interfaces to over 15 external devices, the connectors are through hole. SM connectors simply don't work.

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    www.BioZen.co.in

  6. #16
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    Why to leave SMT based, ARP users at their own fate ? An online portal can be built which will provide them way to buy SMT components for their ARP. It will be slight burden initially but once setup, it won't cause much problem.
    For every minute that is spent in organizing, one hour is earned !

    http://elecrom.wordpress.com/

  7. #17
    Senior Member T-1000 debu's Avatar
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    I won't argue on this issue any further.

    Just want to point out that Mohit's experience doesn't tally with mine.

    @elecrom: Yes, I agree. In fact I do believe vikas is planning to open an online shop too.

    Regards,

    Debu

  8. #18
    Administrator T-1000 vikas's Avatar
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    Yep Mohits experience and points made me believe its better to stick with DIP for now.

    Also DIP can be hacked easily , which is good for the ameture market.

    Yep ill be opening a shop , but i will be dealing with a very few things , Mainly promoting and selling the ARP platform. Somethign like Mindstorms for india but at a fraction of the cost.
    Vikas Patial

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