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Thread: Debate on Robotic Webshops in India Overcharging

  1. #1

    Default Debate on Robotic Webshops in India Overcharging

    Well I see that there is lot of talk about all Robotic Companies over charging in India. Correct me If I am wrong but I feel in the years to come there is going to be a difference between a Company which is trying to Design and Develop new products in the field of Robotics and then some companies which will just opt for reselling or just manufacturing opensource hardware where your RND cost is nearly ZERO. I feel people just relate the differnce between Cost and Selling Price as Profit for the Company.
    A recent report by IBM suggest that it better for Indian Robotic Companies to become resellers than to develop there own products as there is not enough qualified labour nor enough efforts to develop new products.
    I see a lot of companies coming up in Robotics in India, but I dont see any going on to become a Sparkfun or KUKA or Aldebaran Robotics.
    I think it would be easy to buy stuff from a Chinese company and resell at a low cost but does it make you a Robotics Comany or just a Reseller

  2. #2
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    well..

    What was the point??

    I dont think much companies are overcharging AT the MOMENT, eventhough there are some.
    It doesnt matter if they get it from chinese, japanese or korean, as long as the products have quality.

    No one have to imitate sparkfun or the KUKA, cause they work in a totally different environment, and India has a different environment altogether at least in Robotics.

    I will be happy to buy an HS5990 or a Bend sensor or a dynamixel in INR. No matter where they source it from. And that will happen soon, the way it goes now.
    .... I didnt do it ! ....

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    Administrator T-1000 vikas's Avatar
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    Not all are overcharging .

    You can compare say pic dev kit from sparkfun to say USB pic dev kit from from nex / probots . There is factor of difference. While nex will have at Rs 500 , Spark fun is x 5 - 6 ( Rs 2000 - 3000 ) times the cost for something similar. But both are selling in different environments an I dont say anyone is over charging .

    But yes not much R&D , but sadly as not much market exists for anything for that kind of stuff ... take for ex IMU's ... i know 99.99 people on this site i know will never even know what they are all about. Also the level of robotics in India vs US/Japan there is no comparasion ... so our vendors are selling things for our level . After all they are in for profits and not community service.

    And what sells in India is Robotics Courses and Complete 4th year projects, Mainly because most students are lazy and stupid.

    And as for Chinese stuff, try importing ... unless u do in bulk u will not make profits.

    Also i would like you to point to the IBM link where you read that "better for Indian Robotic Companies to become resellers than to develop there own products as there is not enough qualified labour nor enough efforts to develop new products"
    Vikas Patial

  4. #4

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    I know not all are overcharging but the usual discussion revolves around that. As you pointed out not much R&D thats the thing I am pointing out. Although lot of companies have come up in India in the Education/Hoby robotics sector but the focus is not on R&D but releasing the same products at a cheaper cost which are already available in the market. With this kind of vision it would be difficult to move ahead in Robotics in India.
    Regarding the IBM report since we i.e(Robosoft Systems) are part of the CII National Committee on Robotics and Automation along with various other member such as IBM , KUKA etc it was put forward in that meeting. I will try to get a copy of that posted here

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    Super Moderator T-1000 docel's Avatar
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    1. Are we looking at Costs or Quality here?
    2. Does quality and its blatantly exorbitant cost justify itself ?
    3. Why should IBM decide and other corporates agree with these things about indigenous R&D and the supposed "there is not enough qualified labour nor enough efforts to develop new products" ?

    Its a sellers market at the moment. The buyer doesn't know what to buy and the seller knows even less about what he sells. The over-night experts are just profiting in the wake of overwhelming interest and extreme ignorance of the customers - its just the case of exploiting the ignorant - especially the Engineering students.

    Reselling may create a platform for continuing interest but over the shelf ready-made solutions kills innovation while building up an aura of false confidence and primness. The supposed Qualified brains ( and labour) is finding its way into the wrong areas as the Industry is imprudently devising means to do so - the story of Tech. Graduates lured into stupid software jobs.

    This is exactly what the CII and other great organizations of the industry should prevent - the brain-drain into attractive Tech-Killer jobs totally different and incompetent from the basic qualifications of an Engineer. It is funny that they facilitate this very exodus of the wrong brains in the wrong place and then 'cry havoc' at the lack of Quality Labour and brains, in a technological sense.
    docel
    ^Anything is possible..
    after YOU prove it!!

    http://bangalorerobotics.tripod.com

  6. #6

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    Catchy topic this..

    The moot question is: Are we creating an ecosystem of robotics in India?

    We all agree that the awareness is extremely among consumers but as more and more people are taking baby steps into the field, there will come a point where knowledge and demand for good quality and reliable products while rise exponentially.

    The sad part will be that the supply will b seen as of poor quality and innovativeness. Currently all robotic companies are rotating within the same boring cake and none are making money enough to fund innovation. 2 snazzy out of college kids are taking aluminium sheets n 4 kachra motors n making a quick buck before shutting shop n doing their MBA.

    Due to an intense price war...corners r being cut in every damned robotics product sold in India. We'll lag far behind than Japan/USA/Europe for we are not taking enough steps forward. Today someone makes a cheap line following module n tomorrow someone makes a cheaper one for 5 rupees less.

    Will anyone survive in this market long enough to make robotics a viable career option for the hundreds of engineers taking part in the umpteen robotic competitions in India?

    Cheers

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    Super Moderator T-1000 docel's Avatar
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    @saptrix
    Man!!! You said it !
    Things cannot remain the same eternally - they WILL change alright, in due course of time. People will get bored of the SOS (Same Old S...tuff) and aspire for better things. But, there will be an interim set who must go through the small & simple before the advanced. Nobody walks before crawling.

    In an infantile period of Robotics in India, one cannot make superfluous observations-
    Quote Originally Posted by Syed Farooq View Post
    Correct me If I am wrong but I feel in the years to come there is going to be a difference between a Company which is trying to Design and Develop new products in the field of Robotics and then some companies which will just opt for reselling or just manufacturing opensource hardware where your RND cost is nearly ZERO.
    I think it would be easy to buy stuff from a Chinese company and resell at a low cost but does it make you a Robotics Comany or just a Reseller
    There will always be a co-existent and still diverse set of companies irrespective of whether it is The US or India or Japan.

    There is a need and a place for everything and everyone in a system.
    Last edited by docel; 07-05-2010 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Grammer
    docel
    ^Anything is possible..
    after YOU prove it!!

    http://bangalorerobotics.tripod.com

  8. #8

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    @docel
    Being in the Educational Robotics space for three years I don't think my observation are superfluous . I think any company in any domain should start as an infant and then grow in its field, not just start as an infant, become a Dwarf and replace other Dwarfs soon to realize that someday it is replaced by some other Dwarf. I am not in any opposition to competition as I am a firm believer that competition drives you to develop better products but I feel that most companies which are coming up today are looking at a short term goal
    @Sapatrix
    Your last question on how many will survive is the one to watch out for.

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    Am I missing something??

    I still cant get the topic, as

    :: we all agree with - Robotics is at its infancy In India
    :: People still rip off people with low quality stuff (Yes, I have done that - but the kid was a bit too hopeless so I overquoted to scare him off. He agreed to the amount - not my fault )
    :: We all agree that R & D is less, the environemtn is different. everything.
    :: We all know the fittest will survive.

    Was the topic, on how to change the ecosystem, so as to have everyone co exist??

    Lets face it, the eco system we have have 90% students working on a competition and 10% companies feeding them.

    We all love to have quality stuff on indian online stores. As far as branded things go, it doesnt matter if you buy it from India or abroad.
    Now if you want R & D In India, what will yo do R & D in ??
    Making developemtn boards and robo chassis??
    Ultimately for workshops and competitions??
    Who else will spend money?? Do we have more than 10 active members here in RI who are not students??
    students prefer to buy the whole kit at the price of half a maxon. The majority buyers are students and they prefer to buy cheaper stuff.

    I seriously think we have very few buyers in India for serious stuff. At the MOMENT.

    The current environment is only good for people who target the students. In that way, I believe the sellers are happy.
    Now, if we need some real good stuff from indian hobbyists, we dont actually need to 'spread' robotics to every nook and corner.
    Only people who have real interest and passion will survive. In that terms, we have few people in India who bothers to do that. That is evident in our discussion forums. When was the last time we had a good technical discussion? apart from line follower sensor issues and TSOP issues?

    right now, the sellers are happy. Students are mostly happy too, just because they dont know what they have learnt, and they have a fancy thing in their hands. They just dont know they spent all the money for nothing. They think making an obstacle avoider is all what robotics is all about.

    So what do we need to change now? Or do we have to change anything at all?
    Or shall we just keep quiet and make some robots? Like the Japanese, probably?
    .... I didnt do it ! ....

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